Lady of Death

Growing Up After Goodbye

• Robyn O'Connell

Share episode

Send us a text

Grief doesn’t arrive with instructions, and it rarely follows a neat timeline. We sit down with Liam, 14, and Toan, 22, to explore how losing a father at the age of eight years old, reshapes identity, school, friendships, and the rhythm of home. Their losses are different—motor neurone disease in one family, alcoholism in the other—but their insights echo: funerals make reality land, support matters most when it’s quiet and consistent, and rituals help turn pain into presence.

Liam opens up about watching his dad’s health fade, he shares unexpected good, too: a mentor who shows up for homework, steadies the house, and models how to grow. Toan reflects on consequence and choice, he draws strength from Catholic faith, gratitude for his mother’s sacrifices, and a firm principle for single mums and kids navigating grief: support, don’t smother; step up, don’t self-destruct.

If you’re a parent, teacher, or friend seeking better ways to help, you’ll find practical wisdom you can use today: offer space without disappearing, invite conversation without pressing, and build small routines that make healing possible. If you’re grieving, you’ll hear two voices that won’t rush you, reminding you that hope and adaptation can live alongside sorrow.

Subscribe, share with someone who needs it, and leave a review with one insight you’re taking forward—we’d love to hear your perspective.

Have questions about death, dying or the funeral industry? Email ask@ladyofdeath.com.au to have them answered in a future episode.

Speaker 5:

We seek to the winter.

Robyn:

Welcome everyone to Season 2 of The Lady of Death. I know it's been a little while and I apologise about that, but you know what they say? Life sometimes gets in the way. But we're back, and we have a new series of 10, and I'm sure, like last time, you will be absolutely fascinated with some of the people that I speak to in the next 10 sessions. I'd love if you could follow me either on Facebook, Ask Lady of Death, or wherever you get your podcast from, and maybe give me a little bit of feedback, which would be absolutely lovely. Tell me whether you liked it, what you thought about the people that I spent some time with, who very generously, I must say, donated their time to talk to me. So let's get started. You would have noticed a new introduction. I'm hoping to do one of those for each season just to mix it up a bit. I know some of you loved the last one, and I know some of you went, oh, that was really weird. So we might do a few more different things each season, but I've had a lot of fun in putting all that together. So wherever you are, sit back, relax. Maybe not if you're driving the car., keep your eyes on the road and concentration still and let's see what's on this session.

Robyn:

Today I have two guests, both young guys, whose father died when they were young. I want to explore what it was like for them then and since. Now that Liam is 14 and Toan is 22. I'm going to declare that I've known Liam since he was born. His dad, Tony, was my husband's best friend, and his mum is like a daughter to me. So welcome, guys.

Liam:

Thank you.

Toan:

Thank you for having me on.

Robyn:

Given I've just spoken about Liam's dad, I'll start with you first, Liam. Tell us about yourself first, who you live with, family, pets, hobbies.

Liam:

Uh so quite recently my uncle's moved back in, so I'm living with uh my mum and my uncle on my mum's side, so that would be my mum's brother. I do a lot of bike riding, I do a lot of reading, and I do swimming in the spare time I have. But typically I'm preoccupied with doing stuff like tutoring homework and all of the like. Uh studying for my tests at school and whatnot, trying to catch up with my grades. Um, yeah.

Robyn:

Okay, great and Toan, what about you? Who do you live with? What do you do?

Toan:

So currently I live with my mum. We we got a place together and and now we are living together. Well, my mum and I we've been living together ever since she came to Australia. I think my point of view is why we should live together is one, yes, it saves money, but two, it is for us to be able to have a greater connection, seeing each other every day and helping each other out. For example, one person does one thing around the house and the other does something else.

Toan:

And for me, I think my hobbies are sleeping. I think when uh when I'm not busy doing something, I think I, I would really like to rest up because I think sleep is important as it is the foundation to really help you do everything else. Aside from sleeping, I like to also go on some food adventure to eat, try new food. I'm uh I'm a big foodie person.

Toan:

Sport-wise, I play soccer, I go to the gym sometimes. I don't go as much as I used to, but now I try to hit the gym at least once or twice a week. And yeah, I think if we I think I have many hobbies, otherwise we will be here all night, so I think that's it for me.

Robyn:

And you're studying?

Toan:

Yes, yes, I am studying cybersecurity. So I was I was doing full-time bachelor's of cybersecurity, but then I turned to part-time, and I also currently work full-time in in IT as well.

Robyn:

Oh wow, okay. All right.

Robyn:

So before I get you to share with us about your journey, I'm curious as to why you said yes to my request when I asked if you'd come on the podcast to talk about your dads. Liam, I'll start with you. Was it just because you knew me and felt like you had to?

Liam:

No, I felt like I wanted to like uh share what my perspective of um losing my dad was because I feel like the way I see losing my father is different to what other people would uh have a reaction to to losing their father. Um at first it was like a shock, and like I reacted the way any other person would, but like now along the line, I see all the different pros and cons of it.

Robyn:

Um that's really interesting because that's that's part of the reason why I wanted you and both of you at different ages to talk about it because you know we just assume that children deal with death and get on with it, and you know, we don't really understand what it's like for a young person like that. And we're going to come back and talk about that in in a little minute, uh, about that. So Toan what about you? What

Toan:

I guess for me uh the reason why I said yes is, I think there's many people around the world who also lost their father or grew up when their father's not around or having an abusive father. Then I guess maybe hopefully my point of view and how I grew up and the way I view things may be able to help those kids or those people who are also struggling who do not have a father, or maybe it's also to help the single mums on how they can better teach their child and in a way make their child feel less lonely.

Robyn:

Yeah. I you know, I think it's really I think both of those views are really important because I think we we don't talk about death with young people when they've experienced it even. It's not sort of a topic that we talk about. And maybe someone who is struggling might find something in this that they hadn't actually thought of. And that's you know, this whole podcast is based on people learning things about young people and all about death, dying, and and the funeral industry. So I I've just uh got from Toan that that he's interested in, particularly with single mums, understanding that part of it. Liam vb n, what would you like people to learn from this podcast?

Liam:

Well, my perspective is that um even though like using my own experiences as an example, even though uh my father has died, and that is like something that I do find myself thinking about, and it is an unfortunate thing for me. I do feel like um because of that, there have been some good things that have come into my life, such as if my dad was still alive, uh my mum wouldn't have found her new partner, and whose name is Peter, as you know. Um he's really, really helped me with like studies and everything, and helped me with you know like becoming a man, but like he's he's also like been able to help around the house like uh my father couldn't do because he was sick and you know old.

Robyn:

So your dad was an older dad. I think he was about 52 when you were born. Would that be right? I think so.

Liam:

Yeah around there I think, yeah.

Robyn:

Yeah, yeah. So he was an older dad that yeah. Um, so tell us how your dad died. Tell tell us about that journey about how your dad died.

Liam:

So um my father died of the uh MND, which is the motor neurone disease. I'm not sure exactly how it quite works, but it's um I think it takes over your brain, you start to lose control of um your motor skills, as uh the name suggests, and it's it was really hard seeing my father in a state where he really couldn't move.

Robyn:

Ye ah,

Liam:

And uh he was struggling to speak even, and um he had to be put on like all these machines to help him breathe because he was starting to lose control of his uh organs at a certain point,

Robyn:

and it and it really kind of started from you know, when we look back now, you were probably only about six or so when those first signs started happening, so it was a very gradual thing, but that the your memories of him being really well would only be from when you were quite young.

Liam:

Yeah, yeah.

Robyn:

And and what was it like for you when you were told that it was that your dad was likely to die?

Liam:

Well, I mean, trying to think back, I don't think I was ever actually told physically by someone that my dad was uh likely to die, but like seeing him in that state, I sort of knew it myself.

Robyn:

Right. That's you know what I find really interesting about that was that I was actually the person who told you about it.

Liam:

Yeah.

Robyn:

I had that conversation with you to say that he was going to die, and I'm really fascinated that that it's not something that you remember.

Liam:

Actually, now that you bring it up, I do remember it. I think you bought me a book.

Robyn:

because it killed me to tell you. It really like really hurt me to tell you that. Yeah.

Liam:

Yeah. Um, but I think I think you bought me a book about the loss of someone you love. I think it was like this kid whose dog died. This um picture book, I think. Yeah.

Robyn:

And looking back, how did how do you think people treated you uh or is there some way you would prefer to them to treat you differently than what they did?

Liam:

Well, I don't really remember them anybody like acting in any other different kind of way, other than you know, like all the like asking all the stuff that you would regularly ask a person that has lost someone, like, "Are you okay? Do you need help?" All that sort of stuff. But other than that, it was sort of like normal-ish, yeah, except for the part where I didn't have my father, but like, yeah.

Robyn:

But and what was it like say with school and and outside of the family? Like, you know, going to school when your dad had died and and stuff like that.

Liam:

Well, I remember I never like really paid attention in most of my classes because um I felt I was being dragged away constantly by thoughts. Sometimes I'd get like distracted by my friends and I'd be happy again, but like all of a sudden I'd remember that my father passed, and yeah, it would it was sort of like two-faced.

Robyn:

Interesting, isn't it? Yeah. Okay. Um, Toan, I'm going to ask you the same things now. Tell us about how your dad died.

Toan:

From my knowledge, uh, and I think brief memory from the death certificate, he passed away. To be honest, I I don't remember the disease, but all I know from like an overview is that he was an alcoholic. And due to him drinking a lot of alcohol, he weakened his immune system and weakened his body. There was a time where the doctors told him that he needs to stop drinking or else he will die. But he's but he said, "No, I cannot die, uh, I won't die". So he continued to drink. And I remember the story being retold to me is that he the night before that he passed away, he passed around 3 a.m. in the morning, but the night before they were playing card, everything was fine. But then later on at night time, he said he was feeling a bit weak. So he took some panadol, went to bed, but earlier in the morning he just he felt more weak and it got worse, and therefore he uh he he wanted to go to the doctors at that point, he got felt very uncomfortable. So my auntie called triple zero, and at the same time she also was going to speed to the hospital. And before he went out into the car, he said he needed to go to the toilet, and but he he also urinated out something that was dark and uh what that was, I wasn't sure. But on the way to the car, he also eventually couldn't walk anymore and he went onto his knees.

Toan:

So my two aunts he had to carry him to the car, and eventually, I think on the way to the hospital, he he stopped breathing. And they tried to resuscitate him, they tried to use the what's that thing called the paddle, yes, to make to shock him, to wake up his heart. They did more than what a normal person should do, but there were still no signs. Yes.

Robyn:

And and what was it like for you? Do you remember how people treated you at that time?

Toan:

I guess at the beginning, people were maybe a little bit more understanding in a way, because people what when I mean by people is people around me in like the family, and and they understand that oh, I just lost my dad. And however, the people, for example, at school or yeah, at school, they I don't think anything changed much because they are also just kids, right? And they they wouldn't they wouldn't know much, but I think maybe the teachers they would they were a bit more careful because I went to a uh private Catholic school, to a private school, primary school, and I think the teachers they they were treated me with a bit more caution and understanding. And so so yeah, I think I think there wasn't much of a difference between people treating me, but um, but yeah.

Robyn:

Okay. So um is there anything that you would have liked to have happened that didn't around that time? Is there anything you would have liked to have had done for you or said to you that never happened?

Toan:

Uh I guess at that time to be honest, it it's quite long now. But in my honest thought, thinking about it, I think I wouldn't really change anything because because of what happened, it made me who I am today. And and I am also quite happy with who I am today, like proud who of who I am today. Obviously, there are still things that that are lacking and still trying to improve myself, but through those experiences and through the things that did happen, I I became who I am today. And and even though it was tough at first, even though it was tough because I wasn't quite close to my dad. My dad lived at a different place. I lived with my grandparents, and I would see him once in a while. And even even though we weren't close, it was a strange relationship to be honest. It was close but not close. In a way, as in every time I see him, we would be very uh happy to see each other, very close with each other, but not close because we rarely see each other. Yes, and so and so it was quite painful at first. I remember crying a lot as a kid, and then uh there was a time where I I think I watched the Prince of Egypt. I'm not sure if you you know that movie, Prince of Egypt, and and there was a a song at the at the end, and it talks about faith and and belief. And so, and because I'm I'm a Christian, Catholic, Christian, and so when I listen to that song, I'll think about my dad, and every time I watched the movie again and listening to the song again, I would cry. So it was uh quite difficult at first, but I think over time, as time comes, that's why they say time heals everything, right? Uh over time things got better, and I think through my experiences uh it made me who I am today.

Robyn:

Yeah. Liam, is there anything that you would have liked to have happened that didn't?

Liam:

Honestly, um the way I like had see it, the way I remember it, I think what it was was just fine.

Robyn:

Yeah.

Liam:

Um the way people acted around me. I feel like I feel like I was fine with that, really, because like if um people started acting differently because uh my father died, um, I reckon that would have weirded me out. And um I reckon I reckon uh since other people were uh so different because of that, I reckon I would have uh worried myself because these are like other people who don't uh know me, don't know my father, and they're like they've reacted this way about the news of my father dying. So I think that would have worried me and in the long run changed my personality.

Robyn:

So when you meet someone now and they ask you about your parents, what what's the answer that you give? What do you say?

Liam:

Well, uh I like to talk about my fa uh my mother, my mother first, and then introduce the fact that uh my father has passed. I like to like I I say how he's passed, how he's passed by the um M N D disease, and um how we've sort of gathered ourselves from that time, um, and how uh my mum's met Peter, uh, and how Peter has really helped. Um but when somebody asks about my family, uh I do like to sort of keep it brief.

Robyn:

Yeah. Yeah. So um is there anything that anyone said to you at any point in time that really struck with you that you really remember?

Liam:

Like, how do you mean by that?

Robyn:

Uh like was there any any profound words that somebody said to you or did for you that you'll never forget?

Liam:

Well, uh, this might sound strange, but uh there's this TV show called Doctor Who, uh which has like really been uh special to me since I also watched it with my father quite quite a lot, quite a lot. And there's this one scene from uh this is, Peter Capaldi, that's the 12th doctor. Uh there's this one scene where he says in uh because he's stuck in a place, but like there's this one scene where he says, um, "it's not the day that someone dies that's the worst, it's all the days that they're dead." And um there's this one common phrase that's been thrown around quite a lot. I'm not sure where I picked it up, uh, but it's "you never really realise what you have until you lose it." And that was quite the story for me, I feel. That was quite the way I felt. Yeah.

Robyn:

Yeah, that's really, really interesting. Toan, what about you? Was there any significant thing that anyone said or did for you that really stuck with you like that?

Toan:

I guess for me, I cannot remember any on the top of my head regarding if anyone told me something or have given me uh profound words of wisdom. But I myself as a Christian as I try to read the Bible, and sometimes I would reflect and think back regarding my dad's uh death, and I get to truly see that in life, because there's a verse in there that talks about how in life everything it is like a like a chance. So whether in whether you become rich or you become famous, everything it is like a like a chance, and therefore it is also this book it is written by King Solomon. I'm not sure if you've heard of King Solomon before, and he was considered the wisest person to have ever lived, and and even God said that there won't be anyone who will be as wise as him, or uh no one in the past will be as was as wise as him, and no one in the future will be as wise as him. And this person with so much wisdom, he said that everything in life it is like uh meaningless, it's like chasing after the wind. Because everything you do, uh everyone's uh uh fate comes back to death. It is like you cannot escape it, and therefore I get to really see that uh life, us as humans, we're very fragile, and and any minor little thing, it can hurt us, and therefore that's why uh it made me to be grateful and thankful for the life I have, and also to be able to cherish the people around us. J ust like how Liam said that that in life you don't cherish the things you have until you lose them. And and I get to see it's it's quite true, us as humans we always want what we don't have, but once we have it, i it just becomes second nature to us. It's like uh because we have it, therefore we don't really value it as much anymore. Until we then eventually lose it.

Robyn:

Okay. Um, Liam, what about the funeral? What do you remember about your dad's funeral?

Liam:

I remember a lot of crying. Um I think at the funeral. That's when I really realised that sorry, that's when I really realised that I had really like I had lost my father, and that's when I like really started to reflect on that. I feel like that's when I realised I had lost I'd lost him. That's the point where

Robyn:

it all became very real.

Liam:

Yeah, yeah, at um my dad's funeral. Yeah.

Robyn:

Do you remember very much of it?

Liam:

Uh well, I remember Uncle Phil trying to get out of his speech, but crying midway. Um unfortunately, he's passed too.

Robyn:

I was going to Um ask you about that because that would, you know, he was a very big part of your life as well.

Liam:

Yeah, yeah.

Robyn:

And then he died last year at the beginning of last year.

Liam:

Yeah, yeah.

Robyn:

And how how different was that for you to then go to his funeral? I remember on the day saying to you it's a really tough day.

Liam:

Yeah, yeah. Um, well, I did

Robyn:

okay, let's come back to that., let me go to you, Toan, and ask you about the funeral for your dad. What do you remember about that?

Toan:

Uh, I think I still quite remember a bit because believe it or not, I had uh a lot of deja vu when I was in that funeral house. So, what I mean is I believe I've had a a dream before where I've had a lot of strange occurrences where things happen and I feel like it already happened before. So I've had a dream in the past that that my dad did pass away. Because when when I had the feeling of deja vu, I remembered the dream. And I remembered that dream of where I sat exactly of when I had the deja vu and and the view and the funeral. And what was um strange is that because I didn't remember the dream, and then a few years down the line it happened, and when it happened exactly as it is, that's when I got that deja vu. So I was sitting on this couch in the position next to my cousins, and that's when I had this deja vu, and I remembered of the dream of where I sat and what the settings were like. And uh even the day before I went to the funeral house, I had a dream that I was already at the funeral house. And there was this one uh tall figure, and he was eating so much food, and he ate so much spring roll, eating so much food, and I said, Who's this strange man? Who's this person in in the funeral house? Why is he eating so much? Why is he so tall and eating so much? And then the next day when I went to the the funeral house itself, and I look inside the casket, the person that I saw in my dreams, it was my dad. Like the face was exactly the same. So aside from that, there was a lot of different traditions that we performed and did, and yeah, I just remember that in a lot of our families around there was a lot of crying and and a lot of um consoling, yeah.

Robyn:

And um so uh both your mums are Vietnamese. Tell me tell me about the rituals that you followed after the death of your dad. I I know Liam that there were some that you did daily. Tell us about that. Tell us about the rituals that you did.

Liam:

So um what we did, we uh we did a bit of like uh spring cleaning, I suppose you could say. Uh we uh cleaned up all the tables um and we cooked a lot of food. Uh a lot, a lot of food. Um most of my dad's favourite food, especially uh the um Vietnamese food that my mum would cook. Uh and we'd put these uh this food on like tables, and uh we'd have pictures of my dad everywhere. Uh I would make a cup of tea for him, and uh we would light uh incense.

Robyn:

And how often did you? Do that?

Liam:

Well, pretty much we do it like every time it would have been my dad's birthday. And sometimes we even do it on the date of when my dad died.

Robyn:

But but in that in that first time you regularly made him uh a drink every morning, didn't you?

Liam:

Uh I believe I did, yeah. I don't have very I I have um I don't have very vivid memory of it, but I believe I did, yes.

Robyn:

Yes, I I remember that happening for probably the first year, I'd say. (Liam: Yeah) that was ever every morning. Toan, what about you? Did you have rituals that you followed?

Toan:

Yes, so mine is not too different from Liam's, where in the first few months of the of the death, it's very important where we would pray uh every day for my dad because we have a prayer book and we would pray for my dad for 49 days, 100 days. Those are like the important dates. Why it is important, I'm not entirely sure, but I just know that they were important dates, and today it was like a big celebration. No, I'm sorry, my apologies not celebration, but it's like a big thing, and so there's also food that's being cooked, traditional food, food that my dad also liked, and at the same time, every time nowadays, every time it is his birthday or the death anniversary, we would do something. For example, but we also light incense, buy fruits, but at the same time, uh, I think the most important one would be the death anniversary, where we would gather around as a family and cook food, eat together, and and uh say prayers as well.

Robyn:

Okay, and Liam, uh, I hope you don't mind me sharing this, but uh in more recent times, you've taken to uh sharing photos of food on your dad's Facebook page, which is your dad's Facebook page is still active. Tell us about that, tell us what that means to you.

Liam:

So um actually it's I've created a uh Instagram account, and uh I've got my own profile on the Instagram account. Um, but uh I'm not sure how it is. I'm not sure if I've uh clicked on something, but the Facebook, the live uh Facebook account is linked onto my profile on Instagram.

Robyn:

Oh right. So I can tell you you gave us all a scare the first time. We saw a meal pop-up from Tony.

Liam:

Yeah, yeah.

Robyn:

I had a couple of phone calls from mutual friends saying there's just something come up from Tony's profile.

Liam:

Yeah, yeah.

Robyn:

But that's okay, we're all fine with it, you know.

Liam:

Yeah, uh, I had no idea until my mum told me because um, yeah, uh mum knew about the commotion and she told me, and I was like, oh um okay,

Robyn:

so having had the experience that you've both had, is there anything you'd like to tell people to do or not to do with with young people who've had a parent die? Is there anything that you would, you know, encourage them to do?

Liam:

I mean, offer the support, but like don't talk about it too often. Uh I find I need like my own time to heal from things. Uh even quite recently, if I'm like stressed out or like I'm angry at something, I find I walk away and sort of like enjoy my own isolation. I'm not sure if there's if that's like uh something that other people, other kids my age or even younger share, but um I feel like I have my own time to heal and then uh when I'm comfortable I have to talk it out and let everything out to completely let it go.

Toan:

Uh I I do have some advice, one for the for the person for the young person itself, and two is for the for the parent, either may either the dad or or the mum. But I can only give based on the the the mum's point of view because uh my dad passed away. And yes, each person is different, but I would like to give a general overview.

Toan:

So one which is the the advice for the young person is is keep going and and uh try to find the things that that that uh comforts you try to get out of the situation, the best things out of the situation, because there is no point in in doing harm or doing destructive things to help yourself feel better, and just know that your mum is now taking on the role of a father and a mother, and your your mother is also trying very hard to be able to support you, and therefore now as much as you want to live a life of youth, you yourself now have to grow up, you yourself now have to be the man of the household, you have to try your best to be able to support your mum and to grow as much as as as as it as as much as it isn't good that you are now losing your your youth, but now that there your dad is not around, you cannot be playing around too much. Why? Because there is someone who is your mother who is working maybe twice as hard, also doing the chore of the father as well. And try to also get along with your mum. I know my mum and I we don't have um uh a loving relationship in a way where we say nice things sweet things to each other, but we show it through our actions. So no matter what how your love language is, is between you and your mum, you must try your best to be able to work things out together with her because if if your dad passed away and you yourself also distant yourself from your mum, then who else does your mum have? Right. If be I'm saying this uh from a perspective of a of a single child, because I'm I don't have any siblings. And to the mothers out there, uh I still also want to say uh I really admire your hard work and and and your perseverance because now you are taking on the role of a father as well. I understand there are things that you also try to teach your son or daughter how to be be a a man, let's say if it was the son to be a man, but as much as you try, it is not the same as as a man teaching your son. And therefore, please try to understand your son or your daughter as well sometimes, because sometimes it's just that's I'm speaking from uh a male's perspective where sometimes they just need time to themselves as well, and sometimes they they go through that rebellious phase as well, where where they they like to argue, or sometimes they like to do things their way, but also um please try to understand from them as well.

Toan:

I know sometimes mum always like oh mum knows best and and you have to do what mum says, but sometimes also try to understand from your son's point of view and really also support him because sometimes depending on on on the on the child, but we also know that the son now no longer has a father figure, but but I I am I I think lucky for me I was able to be able to discern, was able to understand that I no longer have a father figure, so I have to step up. I cannot play around anymore, and I need to do work.

Toan:

And therefore, also your therefore I want to say to the mum is your son is also trying, he's trying very hard, and as much as you can, please try to support him, but don't baby him. Support, but don't baby, because if you baby and you think, oh, because my son no longer has a father, and therefore I'm going to to treat him as like the uh spoil him, then you will do more harm to him than than good.

Toan:

Because same situation, there could be two outcomes. Uh, one outcome is the child can come out, a stronger person, someone who's mature who who may who become more mature, younger, yes, it it may be a a bad thing or a good thing, depending on how you look at it. Bad could be because uh this person has lost their lost their youth and therefore they have to mature earlier to support the mum. Or two, good thing is this person has matured earlier, therefore they can be able to get better in life uh earlier on. And sorry, I suddenly lost my train of thoughts.

Robyn:

That's okay. Did you just learn anything from that, Liam?

Liam:

Yes, I learned quite a bit. I learned quite a bit, actually. And um I'm gonna I'm definitely gonna take uh our entire conversation that we have here uh with me. We're gonna take bits and pieces. I'm gonna I'm gonna learn. Yeah.

Robyn:

It's it's interesting, isn't it? It's just conversation and what you pick up from conversations. I I noticed Toan before that you you said something that I actually reversed for Liam when you said you're the man of the house. And I remember Phil actually saying that when he spoke at Tony's funeral. And I remember distinctly saying to Liam, "it's okay, you don't have to be the man of the house, you're still a kid", you know, because he was just like so shattered and and suddenly to have to, you know, I think as you mature for sure, but at eight, he wasn't ready to be the man of the house. So um, but it's it's fascinating, isn't it? And it's it's such a a complex topic that we we have only just like touched the ripple of the the surface on. But before we start to wind up, is there anything else that you would like to add? And I'll start with you, Toan.

Toan:

Yeah, so I think I just remembered uh from my point is is in the same situation there could be two outcomes. One could be one could be that the the child turns out to be a better person, or two, the child turns out to be not so good person. And and both uh one could say, because of my situation, therefore I am who I am, or the other could blame the situation and say, Oh, because of this situation, therefore I am who I am. And and I and I learned this from seeing a short clip regarding someone who had an alcoholic father. One person became successful. Why? Because he stayed away from alcohol and he said, "Look, my dad is an alcoholic." The other person also became an alcoholic. And when asked, "Why are you an alcoholic?" He said, "Look at my dad, he was an alcoholic, therefore, I am an alcoholic". So, yes, I think depending on the situation and how you look at it, I think you can always take something out of it.

Robyn:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Liam, is there anything else that you would like to add?

Liam:

Not much that I can think of at the current moment, no.

Robyn:

Okay, that's okay.

Liam:

Uh but yeah.

Robyn:

All right. Now, to wrap up our sessions, as a big fan of the actors studio, I'm going to take a leaf from their book and ask a series of questions to each of our guests. These will be a little different than normal, as some don't quite apply to our guests today who are much younger in years. So, but some of them will be the same. So I'm going to ask one question and then the other, the second question, and come backwards and forwards like that. So, so Liam, what is your favorite word and why?

Liam:

My favorite word. Hmm. You know, I've actually picked up a few favorite words, uh, but like I kind of like lost that trend. If I had to pick a favorite word, it would be pneumatal ultramicroscopic silicovolcaniconiosis. Simply because of how simply because of the.

Robyn:

Can you say it a bit slower?

Liam:

Uh pneumatal ultramicroscopic silicovolcaniconiosis.

Robyn:

Okay, and what is that?

Liam:

Uh, it's a lung disease formed by inhaling tiny microscopic bits of ash or uh silica dust.

Robyn:

Uh and why is it your favourite word?

Liam:

I think it's simply just because of how ridiculously long it is.

Robyn:

I was going to look it up, but I thought that's gonna take me too long to even look up. So thank you. Toan, what's your favourite word and why?

Toan:

My favourite word, I have many, but I think one word that since you've mentioned you since you've asked this question, it is the word uh hope. To be honest, in life, if you have hope, you can do many things. Hope for a better future, hope for a better life. If you don't have hope, hope is what keeps people going. Without hope, really, you would all you do is stay in bed. But if you have hope in your heart and in your mind, you'll continue going.

Robyn:

Okay, Toan. Uh, what is the thing that you're most grateful for in your life?

Toan:

I there's there's many things to be honest. Uh, can I can I mention three because they are the most grateful? Uh one is life itself to be alive. Two, it is for my mum because she's done so much, sacrificed so much for me. And I understand that even though there are some times we we argue back and forth, we yell at each other, but uh in all that, I know she sacrificed and did many things for me. And I understand and know how much sacrifice she done when she first came to Australia as well, because the day she got the visa to come is a day my dad passed away. And therefore, there's so many things she has to do, how how much suffering she has to endure. Therefore, I'm very grateful for her. And and another thing I'm grateful for is uh this is just me personally, the view the people here don't have to agree with is I'm grateful to also have faith, to have faith, to have uh to to to be a Christian, to believe in God.

Robyn:

Excellent. Uh Liam, what are you most grateful for in your life? Apart from me, of course.

Liam:

I think I am the most grateful for uh my mother because without my mother, honestly, I'd be hopeless. Because like I have honestly I have some issues now, but like they surely like I can guarantee you they would surely would not be as bad if I didn't have my mother.

Robyn:

Yep, absolutely. Okay, what is your career goal? What do you want to be?

Liam:

I think it's going to be forensics. Okay. Um it's gonna require a lot of studying and a uh I believe it might I assume it would uh you would need a large skill set for it. Uh so even if not, you know, like having a negative outlook on it, but like even if the chance was I didn't make it into forensics with that skill set, I could still make it into something maybe just as good as forensics.

Robyn:

Toan, I don't even have to ask you that question because you've just answered it before by saying that you're studying cybersecurity, so that's a pretty easy one for you. Uh, what is the sound that you love the most?

Toan:

The sound? Oh, you mean like music-wise or just like any sound?

Robyn:

Anything.

Toan:

I think sound-wise, I'm not sure, but I really like uh the sound of traditional uh Chinese instrument, the sound of them, like uh it just brings it, gives me a little bit of uh nostalgia because I really like the the Three Kingdom Dynasty back in the ancient Chinese period, and and yeah, I really like those sounds. Yeah.

Robyn:

Excellent. What about you, Liam?

Liam:

Uh if we're gonna go like um just sounds, I reckon what really makes me comfortable is like uh when it's raining outside and I'm inside. Rain outside and me inside, first off, it gives me like a sense of gratefulness that I get to be inside and I don't have to be outside.

Robyn:

Like if you could have dinner with one person living or dead, who would it be?

Liam:

Honestly, my father.

Robyn:

Yeah, Toan.

Toan:

If possible, um God.

Robyn:

What do you think is the most important lesson that you've learned in your life so far?

Toan:

Jeez, that's a very deep question for a quick answer.

Robyn:

It's a very simple answer.

Toan:

Gain wisdom, gain knowledge, because that's something that will stick with you forever.

Robyn:

Absolutely. Liam?

Liam:

I think it's to um if you ever encounter something that hurts you, you adapt. The one thing that you've always have to do in life that any living creature always has to do in life is to adapt. So uh yeah, I think especially with my father dying, that's something I had to learn to adapt.

Robyn:

Okay, the final question is if you could change one thing in the world, what would it be?

Liam:

I think it's to uh personally, I reckon it would be to change people's ideology to because a lot of people think about such uh minor things, but like they think about it uh way too much and they overthink such uh I have a word for it, but I forgot it.

Robyn:

Uh but like um So people just to keep it simple, yeah.

Liam:

Uh yeah, yeah.

Robyn:

Just to keep keep life simple, don't overcomplicate it. Okay.

Liam:

Yeah.

Robyn:

Uh Toan, what about you? What would you change?

Toan:

I would change, I would just make sure everyone we are united as one, you know. Yeah, I I've heard of this phrase, I'm not sure if you've heard it, but I I really love the phrase we are one. And and yes, we are all humans, right? We are one, we created as humans, but at the moment we are not one, we are all divided. But if I would want to change one thing, it is for us to all be united in our ways of thinking and in our ideology and to be able to love one another.

Robyn:

What a fantastic way to finish up. Thank you so much, guys. I so appreciate your input. I think this is gonna be amazing for people to listen to to just hear different perspectives. And I'm so very grateful for your time. But more importantly, I can understand why both of your mothers are so proud of you. Well done.

Liam:

Thank you, thank you for having us.

Toan:

Yes, thank you for having us on your on your podcast, Robyn.

Robyn:

Thanks so much for listening. Don't forget to subscribe or to like. That would be really appreciated. Just follow me, that would be great as well. If you have a question you'd like to ask or any other topic about death and dying that you'd like to learn more about, please drop an email to ask@ladyofdeath.com.au and we'll look at possibly including that in the next series of podcasts. I can tell you we've got some very exciting people this time. So I'm sure that uh each time I open a door, I get open to other doors and go, oh, let's talk about that as well.

Robyn:

This is Robyn O'Connell, the Lady of Death, whose philosophy is for everyone to embrace life fully, yet be prepared for its natural end, ensuring when that time comes, it's not just an ending, but a true and authentic representation of the unique life that you have lived.

Robyn:

Thanks. See you next time.