Lady of Death

Legacy Planning: Conversations with a Will & Estate Specialist

• Robyn O'Connell • Season 1 • Episode 9

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What happens when you die without a will? Who decides where your possessions go, who raises your children, or even what happens to your remains? The answers might surprise—and disturb—you.

Estate planning specialist Nadya Volishina joins Robyn O'Connell to pull back the curtain on what happens when we fail to plan for the inevitable. With alarming clarity, Nadia reveals that half of all Australians currently have no valid will, leaving their families vulnerable to painful disputes, unexpected costs, and outcomes that might directly contradict their wishes.

Through candid conversation, Nadia explains why even young people need wills and the importance of charitable bequests for creating meaningful legacies. Particularly moving is the exploration of how proper planning can prevent family conflicts during periods of grief—especially in blended families where competing interests can lead to painful disputes. As Nadia explains, estate planning isn't just about distributing assets—it's an act of love that provides clarity and guidance when your family needs it most.

Have questions about estate planning or other end-of-life topics? Email ask@ladyofdeath.com.au to suggest future podcast topics or query the experts directly.

Nadya Voloshina:  nadya@respectwills.com.au

Web:  respectwills.com.au 

Have questions about death, dying or the funeral industry? Email ask@ladyofdeath.com.au to have them answered in a future episode.

Robyn:

A

Nadya:

Hi, thank you, Robyn. Thank you for having me

Robyn:

Tell us about yourself, who you live with your family pets.

Nadya:

My family is a very busy one. So I've got, and I'm outnumbered here, because my husband and I've got two boys, and my dog is a boy as well. So I've got a little chihuahua, his name is Freddy who's the most loyal dog ever and I, yeah, my two boys, they're four years old and one and a half years old, so they keep me on my toes. They definitely keep me busy.

Robyn:

Absolutely, and being a full-time working mum as well, that's a massive take on. So before I get you to share with us your journey in the wills and estate space, I always ask people what is their why? Why do you do what you do?

Nadya:

it's a very good question and it's a question that every time the answer changes. So if someone asked me this question even a year ago, my answer would have been different. So these days, my why is? Well, first of all, it's my family. I want to be able to be there for them. You know, this is why I decided to start my own business, so that I can be there for my boys, right?

Nadya:

But from the professional perspective, my why is to help families. It's as simple as that. Because I work with clients across all kinds of family dynamics, you know, from blended families, aging parents, young children and I really want to make sure that that process of estate planning and then estate finalisation is straightforward and also empowering, because it is a sensitive topic. So I want to provide that comfort. You know, a bit of reassurance, I should say, to my clients in making sure that their affairs looked after while they're still alive and after they pass away.

Robyn:

So share with us a story about how you came to work in wills and estates, because it's not something that I imagine would be high on the list for a young lawyer when it comes to legal specialities. You know there'd be, you know, bright, shiny objects that could be, you know, far more appealing towards a young lawyer than wills and estates.

Nadya:

Absolutely. Wills and estates is not the sexiest area of law, that's for sure. No one, no one, aspires to become a wills and estates lawyer. But when I was finalising my legal education, we have to do six months of practical legal training and during these six months we do core subjects and then we do some electives, and one of my electives was wills and estates and I only happened to pick it because I like the presenter, I like the mentor and I also didn't like anything else, to be honest with you. But when I was listening to her, she was so passionate about wills and estates area of law, that I thought that's interesting. That's first of all, it's very important and I do believe that every lawyer should have some basic understanding of course, of how to draft a will, how to interpret the will, but also from a client perspective, of course, it is an important area of law.

Nadya:

So when I became a lawyer, again, I didn't think that I was going to be doing wills and estates as a full-time job. My direction, where I wanted to go, was family law, simply because, again, there was nothing else that I really enjoyed doing. I didn't like commercial law because it was... it seemed too dry for me. I didn't want to be, you know, involved in these disputes about money. But then, when I started working in family law, I realised that, again, it's just not for me. I'm not a litigious person, I don't like confrontation. I don't want to be involved in disputes about children, about domestic violence. It's just, it doesn't sit right with me. It's an amazing job that family lawyers do, but I don't see myself doing it as my career for the next 30+ years of my life.

Nadya:

And then it just happened that the law firm where I started working as a junior lawyer, the lawyer who was specialising in wills and estates, she resigned. And I thought, well, first of all she had a really nice office and I I really liked her office that had a skylight and a bit more natural light and and a bit more airy! So I put my hand up and I said I want to do it, simply to get the office. But at first I didn't get the job, but then after some time, I ended up getting the job and I could not be happier. I am so grateful that I had that opportunity to put my hand up and to say that I want to do it, that I did not hesitate to do it, because I absolutely love what I do.

Robyn:

So how long ago was that? How long ago did you start?

Nadya:

So that's now been almost eight years.

Robyn:

Eight years, wow, You don't look It's old enough to be eight years. So when when I met, you, you ou were working on your own at V Legal and now you've joined forces with Danielle Zetzer. Tell us how that came about. What was the story behind that?

Nadya:

It's one of my favourite stories. I absolutely love telling this story to people, because we Danni and I, we met at one of her events that she organises. She organises these events, empowering events for women, right that we met at. So I went to one of these events and it was in, I believe it was in July last year. It was cold, it was raining. I really, really didn't want to go, but because I bought the tickets with my friend, I just couldn't let her down. So I ended up going and I was sitting there listening to Danni talk and I felt like she was talking directly to me. She obviously she wasn't, but I felt so inspired. I'm an introvert by nature, so it's very unusual and uncommon for me to come up to someone and start talking to them, but after that event I felt like I had to come up to her and just say thank you, thank you so much. It was an amazing evening. Can we please catch up for coffee? Coffee, I just want to pick your brain. How did you start your own business? How did you become so successful? And she said, "yes, please come into my office. And we ended up um catching up for coffee. And then one thing led to another, and the rest is history.

Robyn:

Wow, so how long ago did you actually merge with her so?

Nadya:

It was a long process of merging. It wasn't that straightforward, due to different things, you know personal life, kids, yes, it all. You know we all juggle things in our lives, so sometimes things take longer than expected, but we've finalised the merger. It's not a merger as such because Respect Wills and Es tates is a brand-new business. (R: Y es) so I should say it's a successor of V Legal and Respect Wills and Estates is now a newborn business. I should say, and it's been about six months now.

Robyn:

Right, right, that's fabulous, so share with us about how other people reacted when you told them that you were going to work in the wills and estates part of law

Nadya:

You know, I have to say that I actually received a lot of support from from my family, from my friends.

Nadya:

My family they're overseas, so they don't quite, it's not estate planning is not a hot topic overseas, where my family live. Yeah, because there is um the stereotype that if I prepare my will I'm going to die tomorrow. So a lot of people they just avoid doing it simply because they they believe that something is going to, it's like a bad omen that once they get it done, something is going to happen to them.

Robyn:

That is such a common response, isn't it? You know, and I keep saying to people, talking about sex won't make you pregnant, just like talking about wills won't make you die.

Nadya:

So true, so true, Robyn.

Robyn:

But it's interesting when you're talking to people about making their will and I don't know whether you know any statistics or not, but it's like not everybody has a will that should have a will, right? Do you know about how many would be?

Nadya:

So at the moment, about 50 percent of Australians don't have a valid will. That's amazing) so it's very alarming because it is such a simple document and it's such a simple process to get it organised and it can avoid so much stress and uncertainty for your family when something happens to you that it is a very alarming statistics that 50% of people that just don't. E ither, they don't have time to get it done and they put it off, they put it on the back burner, thinking that I'll get it done eventually. But the reality is sooner or later, each one of us is going to die (R: that's right) and no one knows when it's going to happen. (R: Yeah), so yes, yes, it's one of those things that I see these situations from a different perspective, from a perspective when a person passes away without the will and it causes so much grief to their family.

Robyn:

So just explain a little bit more about that. Like if somebody dies intestate, which means dying without a will, and I've had a family member involved in this, so I know the process, but it was way more complicated than I ever knew. I just thought that it was quite a simple process and not expensive, but it's actually quite expensive as well, to a point. So just explain to us what dying in testate means.

Nadya:

Absolutely so. If you die in testate, it means that you die without having a valid will in place. What happens then is that the legislation has a set of rules that applies to every person that passes away without a will. So imagine a situation where you have two families and these two families and these two families, they're told that this is the set of rules that's going to apply to each of these families. Kids are going to go to this particular school, they're going to do these particular activities after school, and parents are going to be doing these jobs and they're going to be getting this much money.

Nadya:

One family might say, "yeah, that's fine with me, but the other family might say, well, hang on, it doesn't work for me, because my kids are not even of school age, (R: right), or they might have a disability, or they might have many, you know, different issues. Parents might not want to do these jobs that are, you know, given to them and they're told to be doing these jobs. So same here, when the same set of rules apply to every person after they pass away? Well, yes, for some people it might work, (R: yes), but most likely it's just not going to work for your family, because each family is different.

Robyn:

And you actually have to apply to the court, don't you? For someone to become the administrator of the thing, and I know, when it happened in our family it was like, just off the top of my head, it was about $5,000, of which no one had that money, just sitting there waiting for this to happen.

Nadya:

It is a very expensive exercise. That's right, because when you have a will, it's clear who is going to be appointed as an executor, so this person, if need be, they make an application to the probate office to get a grant of probate in order to finalise their estate. If you don't have a will, there might be competing claims as to who should be appointed as administrator. (R: Right), who should be finalising their estate. So this is why it becomes very expensive because, as we all know, disputes between family members, they're never cheap, they're never easy, and unfortunately they often end up in, you know, in legal, in the legal space.

Robyn:

Yes, and I think you know, in this day and age of you know second marriages where you've got her children, his children and possibly their children together, it becomes really murky about things because you know there may have been some friction that that that person has left, uh, for another person, and so the children from the first marriage aren't necessarily, you know, having great contact with dad or mum or whoever it is, and and the other ones do, and so they kind of feel like they've got more of a claim on it and it becomes really, really messy and people don't realize that when they get married and I am a registered marriage celebrant and I say to them once you marry, your last will becomes invalid. You change your legal status and you need to revisit doing your will.

Robyn:

Now for a lot of them it gets really hard, and one of the things that I've I've I struggled with myself when my, my son was young, was who do I want to get to raise him? If anything should happen to both my ex-husband then and myself, you know who would I? I want to raise him, and so I never made a will, thinking that I couldn't make that decision. And yet I thought about it as I'm older and can look back on that and go what a stupid thing to do. You're going to let somebody else make that decision, who's not going to take into any consideration what my thoughts would have been about it. And now I look back in horror to think, oh my gosh, what a vulnerable position I not only put myself in, but my son to be raised by somebody who perhaps I wasn't all that keen on. So you know, it's a really interesting type of scenario to look at.

Robyn:

Fast forward to marrying again, we then didn't make our will, um, for a long time in fact. I I will confess I I only made my first will about probably about 10 years ago now, and uh and and again, you know it's, it's something that we didn't do because we couldn't decide about how to divide our estate. How to divide we had one child who had had no contact with us. Well, in the last 10 years that child's had a lot of contact with us, so it became much easier to make those sort of decisions. But when you're trying to do it and you just don't know what to do, the easiest thing is to walk away and not do it at all, (N: try and do nothing) and I think that's really sad.

Nadya:

It's probably, yeah, the worst decision that you can actually make. (R: Absolutely). Because I always tell my clients that we prepare the documents for you based on what your current circumstances are. Yes, we cannot predict what's going to happen in 10 years' time, but your will, or I should say your life, changes. Your life is never the same. (R: Yes), so should your will. So if you, for example, in your situation, you said that 10 years ago you didn't have much contact with one child, well, 10 years later, you've reconciled. It's different circumstances, so change your will. (R: That's right). But in the first place, yeah, get it done, and then you can always update it, review it, make sure it stays up to date and, of course, you can make whatever changes you want if your life changes.

Robyn:

and I think that's another mistake that people make is that they set and forget.

Robyn:

They go. Oh, I've got a will.

Nadya:

Absolutely yes. It's a very common misconception thinking that it's a one-time task.

Robyn:

Yes.

Nadya:

No, it's not because.

Robyn:

So how often should people look at their will? How often should they go back and have a look and see if they're still happy with it?

Nadya:

Well, a rule of thumb is to review it every three to five years, right. But if big milestones happen in your life you get married, you get divorced, you have children, you change your assets, you need to review your will then. If someone passes away, who you nominate, review your will, then yeah. If, if that person or people pass away, yeah, something has to be addressed.

Robyn:

Well, my brother-in-law lives in Papua New Guinea and I'm his uh, uh executor, uh, I'm his power of attorney and his executor, and he's 10 years younger than me. And we, we laugh about this all the time because I go hang on a minute, you know I'm 10 years older than you. Why on earth am I your, you know thing? And he said, yeah, but you don't live in Papua New Guinea, you know.

Robyn:

So the risk factor for him is greater because he lives in a sometimes volatile country. So you know that sort of and and we, you know, often have a laugh about it, but it's while I'm still I still feel that I'm capable of doing that, and there may come a time where I go, you know what, I don't, I don't actually want that responsibility because I don't think. I think that's the other thing that people don't realise is, you know, asking someone to be an executor is a very big ask, (N: it is). So what is the role of an executor? What is the role?

Nadya:

Yeah, the role of the executor is like you said, it's a big task, it is time consuming and often if family members cannot agree on something, then the executor finds themselves in a position where they're stuck between two or more family members who are disagreeing on certain things.

Nadya:

t's one hand, it's good to have that independent person who can just make decisions based on what they think is the best for their estate, but on the other hand, for the executor it is not an easy exercise, of course.

Nadya:

So essentially, the executor should be a trusted person who knows your affairs, so they know what assets, what li abilities you have, or at least they know where to find this information. They should ideally know where the original will is, and it's another big misconception that a lot of people they prepare their wills and they don't even know where they are. So if you do have a will in place and you don't know where to find it, well, it's pretty much similar to you not having a will at all. Yes, so the executor should know where the original will is and once they, if need be, if they obtain a grant of probate, then they finalise this. So they make the distributions. First, they collect all the assets and they make distribution of those assets in accordance with your wishes and the will.

Robyn:

So you just talked then about probate. Can you explain actually what probate is?

Nadya:

Probate is, not many people actually understand what probate is, because it's just a concept, it's a piece of paper, basically, it's an authorisation of probate office, which is part of the Supreme Court of Victoria. It's an authorisation of the court for the executor or executors to act in that role. (R: Right) and to finalise the estate in accordance with that last will of the deceased person, not any other will, this particular last will. So basically, the grant of probate states that these are the people who are authorised to act on behalf of the estate and this is the last will of the deceased person and these are the wishes of the deceased person in accordance with which the estate should be finalised.

Robyn:

So what happens if somebody makes a will? The executor knows that there's a will, but no one can find it?

Nadya:

T here is no registry of wills in Victoria, because it's a really big task to have a registry. If some people, for example property developers, they might update their wills every two years when they finalise a project, so it's it's just very burdensome on um will makers to to make sure that you know, you update these records. Um. So there is no registry and if you can't find, if you can't locate the original will, you could use a copy of the will in order to get the grant of probate. But then it would be in the court's hands to make a decision on whether this is the last will of the deceased and the grant of probate should be issued, because the presumption is, if you can't locate the original will, then perhaps the deceased didn't want that will to be a valid will and they might have destroyed it.

Robyn:

Right, and if it can't be found, then there's nothing they can do basically. (N: T hat's right, that's right).

Nadya:

Because you only really have one go at it. That's why it's so important to get it right from the start, because you can't go back and change it. You know, if something happens to you, wherever, the document you leave behind is what your family members will be working with.

Robyn:

And that's you know, I think it's interesting because you would know, I have a company called Last Farewell and I work with people about putting their affairs in order and making sure that they've got a will and making sure they've got powers of attorney and making sure they've got an advanced care directive and working out what sort of funeral company would be suitable for them and all of that end of life stuff. And I always say to them they go, oh well, I've put in my will what I want to happen to me when I die. And I say to them all the time it's not a good idea to put it in your will, because often people won't even read the will until after the funeral, because they think oh they're just after the money. And I know a lot of families that this has happened to, where they've actually opened the will after the person has been buried and they've had their farewell and everything else and found out that mum actually didn't want to be buried with dad. She wanted to be cremated and her, her thing scattered somewhere you know, in a favourite rose garden that she used to go to or something you know, and and they found this out afterwards because it's been in the will and they kind of like went well, we just thought that was all to do with money and everything, so we didn't want to look at that until afterwards. We're a bit worried about families arguing and stuff before the funeral, so they put it off until after the funeral and then they find out that this person wanted something completely different to what they had done.

Robyn:

And so, you know, I say to them often to put it somewhere in your house. Don't necessarily put it in the safest place, put it somewhere and I'm not going to say where I normally suggest, because that then puts it out there for people to look in that sort of thing. But put it somewhere and tell at least two people where it is, so that two people know that. You know, I've got a book called Some Things I Might Not Have Told You... but you might like to know, and and I, you know, say, put it with that. And I say to put that book somewhere that people can easily access it. And one of the things that the book's got in it it's got all the details about what you know what the person, where the person has bank accounts and all that sort of stuff. And I'm just under it's undergoing its third version so far, because now, because younger people you know people in people in their 50's their circumstances change, right. So writing it in a book, it's, it's written. So now I'm doing a, a folder, so that you know pages can be replaced as they need to be.

Robyn:

But it's, it's about um by by putting it in there, and one of the quotes that I've got in it is just absolutely beautiful. I'm going to try and remember it off the top of my head. It says something like giving you the passwords to my things is kind of like, now I can't remember it. It's more or less saying giving you the passwords is my gift to you. My trust in you not to use them is is your trust to me, or something like that. So it's kind of like here are my passwords, but I trust you not to use them, but you will need them.

Robyn:

You know a lot of people don't realize and I find this in a lot of uh funerals that I've done over the years is that "she's got a whole lot of photos on her phone but we can't get into her phone because we don't know her password. And if you don't know somebody's Apple ID, say, for instance, you can't get it. It costs thousands upon thousands to get an expert, to try and get into it, to be able to do it, and most people don't have that and they don't realise all these little things that you, you have. My husband and I have a program where we, we have a password, 1P assword, it's called and uh, so that I can get into his vault and he can get into my vault to be able to do things. But there are all those things that people kind of don't think about, and it's particularly true of younger people. And you know, people go oh, I don't want to think about my funeral yet, and I go. It's not just old people who die.

Robyn:

And if you travel overseas, have you decided what you want to happen if something happens to you while you're over there?

Robyn:

Because a lot of people go "oh, I've got insurance, um, you know, they can just bring me back. No, the insurance might cover $20,000 . It might cost you $50,000 to repatriate somebody from England (N: that's right) because it goes by weight. So so you know all of, and because they've got to be, um, you know special coffins that are lead lined and all that sort of stuff for safety and health reasons and things like that. So it's like it's really important just to even have those conversations, so the person that you're traveling with knows.

Robyn:

You know, I just spoke to a friend before who's a celebrant and he said, uh, he's actually doing a memorial service for somebody who died in China. They had them cremated over there because the cost of bringing them back was too, too high, but now they're having the memorial service here for them. You know, but it's that happens all the time and people don't realise and they just go oh, you know, we'll just get them sent back. And even within Australia that's a very expensive exercise and usually people don't take out travel insurance within Australia.

Nadya:

Or they know what their policy is and how much they're covered for. (R: That's right), yes, but also on that point, if you don't have a will, if you don't have an executor appointed, then there is such a high risk of your family members actually not agreeing on what should happen. (R: Yes), especially if it's a blended family, or you might have if it's a younger person, you might have their partner and you might have their parents, and the parents and the partner might not get along and they might have different ideas, (R: or parents might be separated), or parents might be separated exactly, and then you have all these different people involved who think that they have a better claim and you just open a can of worms.

Robyn:

And it's really interesting, isn't it? Because it's a bit like, uh, you know, you might have, I used to work in schools for for a period of time and when, when someone from that school died, they, they made it might have been quite a a solitary person and not had a lot of friends and everything, but all of a sudden all of those people who went to that school suddenly become friends of theirs and you know, and that sort of thing. So we, we all, in those sort of circumstances, somehow something changes in us and you know, and you can have quite a nice get-along type of family and when it comes to the funeral, I can tell you there's no holes barred sometimes, you know.

Nadya:

I'm sure you've got a lot of stories like that.

Robyn:

So you know I run the Rebecca Jane Foundation and, for those that don't know, we contribute to the funerals of babies when their parents cannot afford it, usually covering the full cost of cremation services. So I wanted to talk to you about the importance of bequests. So do you have an idea of the amount of people that actually consider a bequest in their wills?

Nadya:

No, I can't just say it's not a question that I can't give you a straightforward answer, because with bequests, so usually what's meant by a word of bequest is when you make a special gift, so a gift might be left to your family members, to your friends, to a charity. You can decide what it's going to be. You know, usually if it's a charity, then it's a sum of money or it might be your asset. If we're talking about bequests to family members and friends, usually it's jewelry or family heirloom, antiques, things like that that have very high sentimental value.(R: right) So we do, I find that there is no in-between. It's either people who have a lot of things they want to give to particular people or there is someone who doesn't want to leave anything to anyone. 'They can sort it out after I'm gone.'

Nadya:

We hear this a lot and there is no right or wrong answer. Yeah, because sometimes what yes, what works for one family doesn't work for another family and, Robyn, I just wanted to quickly touch upon our previous conversation about about funeral wishes and how you said that it's not always a good idea to put these funeral wishes in the will. On the other hand, it really is a double-edged sword because sometimes if you do say what your wishes are in the will, it can save a lot of trouble to your family later on. Yes, because, believe it or not, 3% of all claims in you know a state area of law made to the Supreme Court of Victoria is about burial wishes, burial or funeral wishes, I should say.

Nadya:

I had a client who so it's him and his brother, their parents passed away now and the father was the last one to go, and not that long ago. So father passed away in 2024, but it wasn't that long ago that his brother contacted him and unfortunately they don't have good relationship between them and the brother contacted him and said, um,"I'm I'm going to spread our parents ashes at the footy oval. And my client was absolutely terrified because their parents were not footy fans. They were very religious people and for them the idea of being spread at the footy oval is probably not something that they had in mind. Yeah, so there is a really high risk of them not agreeing on what's going to happen to the ashes and there is a high risk of them going or ending up in court. Luckily for them they didn't. They sorted out between themselves, but sometimes if you have very specific, especially when it comes to cremation, because once you're buried, nothing can be done about it. If you get cremated, you can absolutely say in your will what you want to happen to your ashes. If you have a special place where you want your ashes to be scattered skated, nominate it in the will.

Robyn:

So I think, I think the take out from that is to, if you're putting it in the will, make sure they know that it's in the will! (N: absolutely) so they do know before.

Nadya:

Yes, that's right, and it's not, if you just put it in the will. Yes, it's great, but you definitely, like you said, you need to have at least two people who know what your wishes are. Don't just rely on your will. Tell your family beforehand that these are my wishes.

Robyn:

And that's you know. That's the same sort of thing with organ donation, like you might put down on your licence that you want to be an organ donor, but your family can actually overrule that at the time. So if you don't have that discussion with them, then they don't. They don't, um, they don't take into consideration the fact that for some people that the thought of you know people taking things from their, their person, is just too hard to take at that time. If they know that it's coming, it's like anything, they're prepared for it. They go ok, people don't kind of really realise and it's one of the topics that we'll be talking about in another episode is organ donation and they don't really quite understand how that all works.

Robyn:

But it's so important to talk to your family, even about anything to do with whether there's a will. If there's not a will, why isn't there a will? It is, you know, what do you want to happen when you die? At least have the conversation, if nothing else. So then they don't have to sit there as so many do with a funeral director and say, "well, did your spouse want to be buried or cremated?

Robyn:

And so many people say "we never had that conversation. And I you know, wherever I go, I say to people go home and have the conversation. Just say you met this really weird lady who has a lady of death podcast that talked all about death and everything and she said we should have this conversation. You know, a lot of people say, "yep, my kids know exactly what I want and that's great, that's fantastic, but so many people don't. So, going back to the the charity thing, how many people actually think about donating to a charity when they die?

Nadya:

I think it's very personal. So whenever you know in your heart that you really want, if there is a charity that helped you or there is a cause that really aligns with your values, then most of the time people do leave some bequest to this charity or charities. It's hard to give you a number, but it really is, it all depends on what a person's experience in life is. We always ask. We always ask if there is a charity. That because sometimes when you go and see a lawyer and talk about your will, it's a lot of information to digest.

Nadya:

A lot of people they just yeah, they they leave our office, for example, and they we always tell them it's a lot of information for you to go through. I'm sure you will have some questions after you leave our office. So always feel free to give us a call and ask something if you forgot to ask it. So in that initial consultation we go through their wishes. If there is a particular charity that they want to support and quite often it does come up I would say probably, maybe at least 50% of the time, there is at least one charity that people then think "oh, actually, hang on, there is a charity that I really want to support.

Robyn:

Yes and that's yeah. And we, you know when we made our will and I don't mind sharing this because I think all of our kids know anyway, when we decided on what we wanted to do. We've got three children but of course my daughter died. So the charity then we looked at going 30% for each of the three boys and 10% to the charity because that would have been her share. Now, why it wasn't 25% is because I work in it full time. So therefore the work that I'm doing is my contribution to that 15% that we're not leaving to her, but you know that was ours.

Robyn:

But it's the conversation that we as a charity. You know there are longer-term benefits for the charity and you know if that charity's not still going, then generally there'll be something aligned to it that it has amalgamated with. So if we look at a charity, like what I started with was the Sudden Infant Death Research Foundation, that became SIDS and Kids, then it became Red Nose. Now SANDS, which is Stillbirth and Neonatal Death Support, has amalgamated with Red Nose and so you know that whole umbrella is there. I was very early in the piece in the Sudden Infant Death Research Foundation and so, but now it's a very, very big charity. But you know the things I say to people now that you know, the big charities have a lot of space and everything else.

Robyn:

So if you're going to look at anything, look at some of the smaller charities. Look at, you know, like my charity, which is the Rebecca Jane Foundation, or a charity that aligns with what is with you. So you know, if somebody in your family had a child who died at birth or between 20 weeks gestation and one year of age we're ideal. If it's somebody who died of childhood cancer, then the Childhood Cancer Foundation you know would would be ideal. You know Very Special Kids. There are so many of the smaller charities who don't get the big kudos that the Cancer Council and all those sort of things do.

Robyn:

You know, I know that a lot of people give to the palliative care because that's their last experience of somebody doing something to help them, you know. So it's about looking for something that really aligns with your values, like you said, and something that appeals to you or somebody in your family has been helped by. We had, not that long ago, a family asked us for some envelopes for a grandmother who had died. We helped her granddaughter and paid for the baby's funeral, her granddaughter's baby funeral, so it was a great grandchild in our very first year seven years ago and she died last year and requested envelopes for us to get that money. So it's those sorts of things that help small charities continue on.

Robyn:

Changing the subject just a little bit, what do you think some of the biggest challenges you face in what you do?

Nadya:

Can I just, Robyn, can I just quickly go back one step and just say it's such a wonderful cause and your Foundation helps probably the most vulnerable people at one of the hardest periods of their, if not the hardest period in their life. (R: Yes), we recently had an incident with our youngest son in a daycare and it's absolutely fine. There is nothing serious, it's all good. But I really, after that experience, I can't I, you know, I'm not saying that I understand what these parents who lose their child, I, I do not understand, um, what they go through, because I, I obviously, you know, I'm not in their shoes and and that's not what I want to experience in my life. And that's why I just wanted to say that it is an amazing, amazing cause that for parents who go through this period in their life to know that there is someone who have their backs, who can make decisions for them, so that they can take time to grieve.

Robyn:

We know that 8 out of 10 marriages that fail, fail because of financial reasons. We also know that 8 out of 10 marriages where a child dies may end up in divorce as well, and so these families are behind the eight ball. So if we can alleviate the financial part of it for them, then they've only got to deal with that other part. You know, so that's, yeah, that's part of where we're all about, and you know like. You know, we've been hammered this week. We've had six requests this week, and it's only it's Friday, but I had six requests between Monday and Wednesday, and you know, those six families were all in crisis and it was so nice, the funeral, the social worker said to me yesterday "oh bless you, robin. She said because I don't know what this family would have done. You know, so it's, it's as I say, we had our last session was on volunteering and you know, wherever you volunteer, you always get it back tenfold.

Robyn:

So what do you think some of the biggest challenges you face in what you do? What do you think they are?

Nadya:

he lot of misconceptions about wills and estates. A lot of people, um, as we mentioned before, they either just put it off, uh, or don't get to it, put it in a basket that I'll do it later, never get to it, and then it creates a lot of issues for their family. But we also "sorry, robin, I'm still going through what you said about your Foundation and just made me a little bit emotional. It's just supporting families. That's really just as challenging and at the same time, it's a very rewarding experience. But it can be very challenging to make sure that it's very hard to see when families are in disagreement.

Robyn:

How many people would end up in court? How many people would end up in court about wills and stuff?

Nadya:

Look, there is, again ,no straight forward answer, because usually these type of matters they always, not always often, 90% of these matters they're settled outside of court. So you do, if you contest the will, you do have to start the process in either County Court of Victoria or Supreme Court of Victoria, but usually it does not go in front of a judge, so it's usually settled at mediation. So we do have, you know, quite a number of people contesting wills these days. It's definitely much higher than it used to be in 70's and 80's, when the change was, I think that back then your parents' word was the law. (R: Right).

Nadya:

These days we no longer have, unfortunately, the values changed, and I think it's also because the cost of living is extremely high and people find themselves in a position where they struggle to support their family. So when, when their family member passes away, some people just find that there's an opportunity to to support their family, often, of course it happens, you know, that they are unfairly left out of the will and then they should be able to, you know, contest the will and challenge the will. Or maybe it wasn't done correctly, maybe the will was done under someone's influence. Yes, all these things, unfortunately, they do come into play and, as, like I said, as challenging as it is, it's also rewarding to see clients when they finalise their matters, to see how relieved they are and to see that they finally can put it to rest and move on with their life.

Robyn:

So you're working in and around this space all the time. How do you remain emotionally resilient and maintain a healthy work-life balance?

Nadya:

I don't remain emotionally resilient. I am very much emotionally invested into my work and I don't think it's a bad thing necessarily because emotions are different. Yes, sure you know with, yes, with, for example, with family law. I remember when so last year, before our Christmas party, I overheard one of the family lawyers in the office talking about the auto-reply email and she said you know something, something. And then we'll say, in case of emergency, call triple zero. And I just laughed to myself thinking you know, maybe, and then. And she said well, because you know some, unfortunately some vulnerable people you know, if they experience domestic violence, usually at first they call the lawyer. If they can't reach the lawyer, they should know that they should call triple zero.

Nadya:

(R: Wow), so for me it was just another example of what an amazing work they do, but also the emotions that they go through completely different. You have to have very different set of skills to be able to to deal with those emotions. (R: Yes), in estate planning and in estate administration, like I said, emotions are different and we usually, with e state planning uh, people leave us with a sense of hope and a sense of achievement that I've done the best I can do at this stage for my family to make sure that what I leave behind is not a messy paperwork, it's a legacy, (R: wow). So I absolutely love what I do and the emotions that it brings to me is really joy. It's not I don't leave my yeah, I don't go home thinking, oh my god, I'm drained, (R: right) if I do, it's only this, you know, sort of it gives me pleasure. You know that I've done the work. I'm so glad that I helped all these families to make sure that their loved ones are looked after.

Robyn:

t's, it's a topic that could go on forever, really, isn't it so?

Nadya:

So true

Robyn:

Ok, to wrap up our sessions. As a big fan of the Actors Studio, I'm going to take a leaf from their book and ask a series of questions of each of our guests.

Robyn:

So what is your favourite word and why?

Nadya:

Favourite word I'm going to say hope. My name in Russian means hope, (R: oh wow), and I do use this word a lot in everyday life, sometimes not in the right sense maybe, but I do think that hope is, you know, when hope is gone, there is nothing left. (R: Yes, true). So one of my favourite words is definitely hope.

Robyn:

What is the thing you are most grateful for in your life?

Nadya:

I trained myself. It didn't come easy, but I've trained myself, and it's with help of my mum. Every morning I wake up and I just think to myself how grateful I am for my family, for my boys who are healthy and happy, for my wonderful husband and for my extended family, and I'm so, so grateful for the work that I do.

Robyn:

If you could work in any other role rather than what you do now, what would it be?

Nadya:

Believe it or not, I never aspired to become a lawyer. I don't think many of us do, but I wanted to become a travel agent. (R: Oh really?), yes, I love travelling. So if I could have a different career, it would definitely be in travel industry.

Robyn:

I'll let you in on a little secret. I did it for six months. It's the worst job ever. The travel benefits are great, but it's a big job and I don't envy anyone who actually works in it.

Nadya:

Now, we've got our own idea of what it might be like. (R: That's right), but we don't know all the ins and outs,

Robyn:

The reality was much different, I can tell you!

Robyn:

What is the sound that you love the most?

Nadya:

Look it might sound, you know, a bit tacky, but obviously I'm a mum and my two boys they're the most precious things in my life. So the sound of even their screams, you know the sound of their voices, is the most amazing thing in my, the most amazing sound in my life. That's my favourite sound.

Robyn:

If you could have dinner with one person, living or dead, who would it be?

Nadya:

Um, I'm going to say my dad, because he passed away when I was 10 years old, (R: oh, wow), and yes, I never really, I do remember him, but I don't have these, uh, very clear memories of him, so I would love to have a dinner with him and tell him about my life.

Robyn:

Yeah?

Robyn:

What do you think is the most important lesson in life that you've learnt so far?

Nadya:

hat, have to work, you have to work hard. It's not, you can't just say you work smarter, not harder. You have to work hard. If you want to achieve something in life, you have to stand up for yourself.

Robyn:

Yeah, and directly from the actor's studio:

Robyn:

If there is a heaven, what would you want god to say to you when you're met at the pearly gates?

Nadya:

Oh, it's a curly one, um. I would like him to say I really enjoyed looking at your life.

Robyn:

Excellent, Okay, thank you so much for your time, Nadya.

Nadya:

Oh wonderful Robyn. Thank you so much. It's been a wonderful experience.

Robyn:

What can I call you the dying person's 'final word wizard' as we wrap up this podcast?

Robyn:

Can I call you the dying person's final word wizard as we wrap up this podcast? If you have a question you'd like to ask or any other related occupation you'd like to learn about, please drop an email to ask at ladyofdeathcomau and we'll look at possibly doing a podcast of the

Robyn:

questions that you've always wanted to know but never knew or were game enough to ask. This is Robyn O'Connell, the lady of death whose philosophy is organising your final farewell is not about wanting to die. It's about wanting

Robyn:

to reflect who you really are in your goodbye. Thanks, talk to you next time.