Lady of Death

Meet the Lady of Death: Who is she and what is her story?

• Robyn O'Connell

Share episode

Send us a text

Step into the world that many fear to discuss—death, grief, and the stories that intertwine them. This episode features Robyn O'Connell, affectionately known as the Lady of Death, who brings over two decades of experience as a funeral celebrant to our ears. 

In a warm and engaging conversation, Robyn encourages us to unpack the often-taboo topic of death, sharing lessons and experiences that provide solace and understanding.

With personal anecdotes from her life, particularly the profound impact of losing her daughter, Rebecca, Robyn illustrates how grief can be a catalyst for growth and connection. 

She shines a light on various roles within the funeral industry, from embalmers to celebrants, highlighting the unique contributions each individual makes in honouring lives. More importantly, Robyn discusses her heartfelt impetus for founding the Rebecca Jane Foundation, a charity aimed at offering financial support to families encountering the heart-wrenching loss of a child.

Through her candid reflections, Robyn inspires a reimagining of how we view death—not as a subject of fear, but as an essential part of life’s narrative that deserves acknowledgment and conversation. Join us in this heartfelt exploration, and discover how openly discussing grief can create pathways to healing. As you embark on this journey, Robyn invites you to reflect, engage, and perhaps even shift your own perspective on death.

Tune in for this enriching discussion, and don't forget to share your thoughts, questions, and experiences with he. Together, let's make death a topic we can all engage in openly.

Have questions about death, dying or the funeral industry? Email ask@ladyofdeath.com.au to have them answered in a future episode.

Robyn:

Hi, my name is Robyn O'Connell, otherwise known as the Lady of Death. You may have found this podcast by accident or you may have followed me on my Lady of Death Facebook reels, where I try to answer the questions you want to know but don't know who to ask. During these podcasts, we're going to be talking to the many people who work in and around the death, dying and the funeral industry, from embalmers to celebrants, from funeral directors to palliative care staff and even florists who are involved in making the flowers for funerals, people who work in and around death from day to day. Basically, and my hope in doing this is, while we might work in unusual occupations, we are all just normal people who do a very different sort of job.

Robyn:

My first podcast was going to be interviewing a funeral celebrant, because I wanted to look at the different aspects that go to making a funeral, the people who work in them and what they do, but I realised to be able to understand what I wanted to do, then you have to know a little bit more about me. So please be indulgent while I tell you my story and where I came from, how I got into the funeral industry and what I do now. How I got into the funeral industry and what I do now. So who am I? As I said, my name is Robyn O'Connell At this point in time. I've been a funeral celebrant for 23 years and I have to say I have loved every moment of it. I trained funeral celebrants for 10 years, training some of those amazing celebrants who are at the top of their field in their respective states. I'm a funeral consultant in my business called Last Farewell, so I work with people deciding which funeral companies they should use and what their final wishes are and how to let those they love know about them. I'm also the founder of a charity called the Rebecca Jane Foundation, and I'm going to explain a little bit more about that as we go along.

Robyn:

But the one question that I ask everyone that I interview and chat with is what is your 'why'? And I guess I have to make that clear to you what my why is about this podcast. You see, I think we do death very badly in Australia. I think that we don't really understand it. Well, we're afraid of it and we certainly don't talk about it. I'd love that to change. I'd love to be able to talk about death in the same way as we talk about life, birth and everything else. So why do I want to do this podcast?

Robyn:

I want you to meet some of the people that I have met in my 23 year journey and some that I haven't met as well, who work in very different areas of death, dying and the funeral industry. They may be a palliative care nurse, they may be an embalmer, they may be a funeral director, they may be a celebrant. I'm going to try and cover even people like a florist who makes flowers for funerals, when they haven't even met the person or the people who make the DVDs that you see. Actually, I correct myself, they're not called DVDs anymore, they're called visual presentations. But of course, we've gone past DVDs these days and they're USBs and all sorts of things that are happening now USBs and you know, all sorts of things that are happening now.

Robyn:

My why for the Rebecca Jane Foundation was because, like a beacon in the darkness, someone came and paid for her funeral when we were a young couple who had nothing, and I am forever grateful for that, and I want to do that for other families now.

Robyn:

So how do I explain to you what I do and why I do it? I think the easiest way for me is to share with you an article that I wrote for a book called Lessons I Learned. It starts with the birth of Rebecca, when I was married previously to what I am now, and I think it takes us through most of the time up until today. So I'd like to share that with you and it's just something that I think that sharing something deeply personal while making yourself vulnerable can also be a cathartic experience, and that certainly was writing that.

Robyn:

So the first lesson was I was wrong. My daughter, Rebecca Jane, was born on August 7th 1978. Diagnosed with Spina Bifida at birth. This would be my first lesson. I thought everyone gave birth to perfectly healthy babies. I was wrong. Becky had her first major operation before she was 24 hours old. Another followed 10 days later. I found out that my father was also wrong. He said men don't cry. I wondered what I'd married them when my husband at the time cried with me when they transferred our baby to the Royal Children's Hospital when she was less than two hours old. I was wrong again, as I thought the motherhood came naturally to every woman. I failed to understand why these maternal feelings weren't jumping out of me for everyone to see. I realise now I wasn't a lousy mother, which was my belief at the time. I was just in shock.

Robyn:

Lesson two why did they tell you how scary it is to bring home a newborn baby, especially one with scars and special needs? I was terrified, but I couldn't tell anyone that they'd take my baby away if they thought that I wouldn't be able to look after her. So I said nothing and hoped like crazy that I wouldn't drop her in the bath, feed her too much or too little. Not be able to tell if she was sick or even had a slight temperature. H ow I wish I could speak to my younger self then to reassure her that it was okay not to know everything that, j ust like how Becky had to learn how things work, so did her mum. I was so hard on myself, my expectations were ridiculous and then I berated myself for not achieving them. I say to any young mum out there today "if you can manage just to have a shower each day and have clean clothes to put on. You are doing well. "

Robyn:

Lesson

Robyn:

why did they tell you how scary it is to bring home a newborn baby, especially one with scars and special needs? I was terrified, but I couldn't tell anyone that they'd take my baby away if they thought that I wouldn't be able to look after her. So I said nothing and hoped like crazy that I wouldn't drop her in the bath, feed her too much or too little. Not be able to tell if she was sick or even had a slight temperature ow I wish I could speak to my younger self then to reassure her that it was okay not to know everything that, j ust like how Becky had to learn how things work, so did her mum. I was so hard on myself, my expectations were ridiculous and then I berated myself for not achieving them. I say to any young mum out there today "if you can manage just to have a shower each day and have clean clothes to put on. You are doing well.

Robyn:

Lesson three special needs babies don't come with a handbook, nor, for that matter, a nurse to call on to help you. It's learn as you go. Find things that work and you definitely soon learn what doesn't. Initially, every decision I made, I felt her life hinged on. I soon came to realise that if her bottle wasn't quite warm enough, it wasn't the end of the earth. Now that I had a special needs child, was I different to every other mum? I felt like it. I couldn't just leave her with a friend like they left their child with me. You had to know how to look after her really Really well Well. That's what I thought at the time.

Robyn:

Lesson Four four the hardest lesson learning to trust myself. I knew something was wrong with my baby. I just knew it. Don't ask me how I just did . When that doctor came at 11 o'clock at night and sat on my lounge lounging floor with that"oh oh dear another case of an over-anxious special needs mother attitude. I should have insisted that he examine her and not fob me off. I should have screamed at him. I know there is something wrong with my baby, but I didn't. I allowed him to make me feel like I didn't know jack diddly spot and accepted there was nothing wrong with her other than a tummy bug. How he knew this, of course, was a mystery, because he never even touched her. How he knew this, of course, was a mystery because he never even touched her. Why should I have screamed at him? Because I was right. Eight hours later she was dead. Why should I have screamed at him? What I told myself at the time was that he was a doctor. I shouldn't question him. What I would tell my younger self now is go ahead and question him. You're Becky's mother. You know better than anyone else.

Robyn:

Lesson Five no one cares if your baby died, it's true, unless you're in that circle of close family and friends, which is usually around 40 people, that, they estimate, is the amount that will be affected by a baby's death. I remember walking up to the florist to order the flowers. We walked through a park. There was a young couple, t he girl was on the swing and the guy was pushing her, they were laughing. I wanted to run up and push her off the swing and say "how you laugh? My baby has just died. How dare you be happy? Then the realisation hit me. The world kept turning. People still go shopping, go out to dinner, buy new cars and make business deals, and while I might hear about it through someone distantly connected to you, they're more likely to think oh, that that's sad, that's all. It is a fleeting thought, and then they go on with their lives. Your world, however, has been stopped in its tracks, simply blown apart. Never to be the same again.

Robyn:

Lesson six no one knows what to do with someone who is grieving. Granted, before it happened to me, I didn't know either. I didn't know I would lose most of my friends. I didn't know that people would actually cross the street rather than have to face me. I didn't know that I would be the one consoling people when I told them that Becky died. But I did. I was standing in the shop with a mum from my mother's group who didn't know, she broke down. I mean, really broke down. She was just about inconsolable while I stood there holding her, telling her it would be okay. All the while I was thinking to myself. I thought it was meant to be the other way around? I thought people were meant to console me.

Robyn:

Lesson seven owning it. While Becky wasn't a planned pregnancy, she still died. So what happens when you want to have another baby. You've planned it and then something goes wrong. You've asked for it and put it on yourself. You have no one else to blame. If it all goes wrong, at some point you have to make the decision. I thought it would fix my husband, who never said Rebecca's name again. I was wrong again. It's scary making that decision to make yourself vulnerable and to possibly future hurt, knowing full well this is the path you .

Robyn:

Lesson lesson Eight . The second time round isn't always easier. I tried not to get excited when I became pregnant in case I became too attached. And then things went wrong and they did. At about 14 weeks I became really ill with appendicitis. There was a problem, if If they operated I would surely lose the baby. So a week in hospital on intravenous antibiotics saved the day, although I did have my appendix out when Jamie was 18 months old. So I thought, yes, I've had a baby before, this This one should be a walk in the park, especially since he didn't have special needs. But I was just as terrified because this time all I could think about was that he might die too.

Robyn:

When all the tests were done, with the possibilities of spina bifida reduced because of an amniocentesis test about 95% accurate. I finally gave birth to a bouncing, healthy baby boy. Now all I had to do was worry that he didn't die from sudden infant death syndrome that Becky did. He did have some minor problems and had to be in a humidicrib for a while. Quite a funny sight, really this almost nine and a half pound baby literally squashed into a crib made for preemie ones. I had lost all confidence in knowing if he was sick. What happened if I ignored it and he died? It had happened before. Could it happen again?

Robyn:

I was blessed that I was one of Dr Allison's first private patients. If I could have asked for an angel on earth, she fitted the bill perfectly. Why? Because she gave me the confidence to have faith in my own judgment. Without question she would fit me in every time I was concerned about Jamie. Alison would then go on to say, "yes, you should have brought him in because of or. No, you didn't need to bring him in because of. Eventually, I started to trust my shattered judgment and gain confidence again. Unlike the doctor, who saw me as an over-anxious mother of a handicapped child, all Alison saw was a young mum who had already had a baby die and needed support. I have never forgotten that kindness.

Robyn:

Lesson Nine learning to let go. I remember when Jamie started to want to ride bikes in the court with other kids in the street, I was a blithering mess. But I knew I had to let him go or I would have become what they now call a helicopter parent. I showed all the signs. So I would sit inside, absolutely quaking inside, terrified that something would happen to him. But then I would think, no, hang on, I'll hear him. If he hurts himself, I'll hear the screams. Then my mind would wander off too. But what about if he was unconscious? So I would try and look out the curtains, hoping he wouldn't see me. He probably could, as our house faced the wrong way down to the court where they all were. Where did the time go? I blinked I'm sure that's all the time it took and he had grown, finished his schooling and was off to university in another state.

Robyn:

Lesson 10. The end of a chapter. There were a lot of reasons why my first marriage ended, but if I was to name one thing, it had to start with the death of my daughter. Did you know that eight out of ten marriages fail after the death of a child? It wasn't there and then, in fact, I was married for 25 years and I realised that the time had come to look after me. With the support of a dear friend, I left my home of over 20 years. It wasn't easy. In fact, it was really hard, and, if I'm honest with myself, there are still parts that sadden me almost 20 years on. No one really wants to fail at anything. I didn't even plan on getting divorced because I had no intention of ever getting married again.

Robyn:

Lesson 11. Starting again and building a business is hard. Those first 12 months of life after my marriage ended were challenging Missing out on the special occasions of children that I'd seen grow up in his family, feeling alone, at the same time starting a new career in celebrancy, where I had to be positive and believe in myself, as well as helping my mum who, at the time, was unhappy about where she was living. It was a complex world, and yet there was also a great sense of relief and contentment that I, for the first time in a long time, was responsible only to, and for, myself, but like most women who find themselves on their own when they're well past, looking forward to a 30-year mortgage that would take them to 80 years old before they owned their house. I just got on with it.

Robyn:

Lesson 12. Believing in yourself. When I decided to start my business as a funeral celebrant, like most, I went and did a couple of courses, did business plans, learned as much as I could about working for myself. There were positives and negatives in that. The positives were it made me think about things I hadn't considered, for example, getting your car serviced before you start. The negative was that for both courses I did, the lecturer after looking after my business plan and SWOT analysis that's, strengths, weaknesses, opportunity and threats they both told me not to do it because I had so much going against me and the likelihood of being able to earn a full-time living in such a crowded and closed marketplace was slim. I had some hard decisions to make, but fortunately I decided to follow my heart Against all odds. I not only managed to make a good living, but after 12 years as a funeral celebrant, I started to train others on how to become a funeral celebrant and, as such, have trained some the best funeral celebrants in Australia. I learned that if you have three P's passion, perseverance and purpose you can do anything. You just have to believe in yourself.

Robyn:

Lesson 13 . 49 is an awesome age. Two years after being on my own, I turned 49, or, as some would say, entered my 50th year. I decided to have a ceremony where I invited 12 of the people who were important to me, one One even came from Perth. As they entered, they were invited to write on a card and there were seven candles that represented the seven colours of the chakras. We stood in a circle and the only disappointing part for me was that I was the celebrant, as As a friend who'd promised to do it decided to move interstate. I would loved love to have just been there to enjoy, rather than keeping my emotions in check because of what I had to say. I spoke about each of the women in the room and what their friendship had meant to me. They in turn spoke about me or read from their card if they weren't comfortable in doing that. I don't think anyone read from their card. Why 49? Because it's completion, or your seventh, of your seven year cycles 7, 14, 21, 28, 35, 42 and 49. It was a time of new beginning. I believe 49th birthdays with your closest girlfriends should be mandatory.

Robyn:

Lesson 14. Never say never . I didn't want to get married again. In fact, when I met my now current husband, husband on our first meeting, I said"let's let's get two things straight I will never live with you and I will never marry you Famous last words. Well, never say never. After 10 days we started living together and in 10 months we were married. I had gone onto a website which is sadly closed down now to find someone to have dinner with and go to the theatre with, because even reading a book during intermission didn't cut it for me. What I learned was that all the things that I thought were so important became unimportant when you meet the right person. Sure, there were things I couldn't, or probably wouldn't compromise on, but the reality was our core values and personalities matched 100%. My husband, david, asked me why we couldn't have met earlier, as he'd been on his own for nine years and I'd been for seven. What I explained to him was that it was because of what we had both been through, that we were who we are. Had we met before, we probably wouldn't have brought that experience with us and who knows whether we would have even stayed married or, for that matter, even connected.

Robyn:

Lesson 15. Giving back is important. Having grown up with a mum who always did so much for others, it just seemed natural to me to do the same. I think the lesson so many have yet to learn is that by giving to others, it always comes back to you in one form or another. I hear people saying 'I couldn't stand not to work. I would go nuts at home all day'. Let me tell you there are hundreds, if not thousands, of organisations out there who would love to have you volunteer for them. The level of satisfaction goes beyond sacrificing any monetary gain. Go into any opportunity shop and see the age of the people who work there. Most are 75 plus. What is going to happen when they go to the big opportunity shop in the sky? Yes, some younger ones may work there because of the work for the requirements, but they are unlikely to continue once they get a job. And that begs the question where are they going to go for work for the doll if these places don't exist? Have you ever seen the movie Pay it Forward? If you haven't, do yourself a favour and watch it. You can still hire it or buy it. It's about a social experiment of paying it forward and I believe it should be mandatory viewing for every secondary student.

Robyn:

Lesson lesson . Starting a charity isn't as easy as it seems. Having been a funeral celebrant for many years and conducting the funerals of many babies, I was seeing more and more couples who have struggled to put everything on the line to be able to be in their own home before their baby was born, only to face the devastating loss of their baby dying and having to pay for a funeral. There were those who were new to Australia or single mums who had no income, most of whom don't have any family support, or they may have emotional support, but the family don't have the means to help them either. So the Rebecca Jane Foundation was started. I've been involved in two boards so I understood the importance of putting a good board together to drive the charity forward. I had my board in place before the charity was even started. It costs money to start a charity, to have the necessary insurances, advice and set up costs that all led up to about $10,000. Starting out is incredibly hard and, even though the government has a wonderful website full of helpful information, there was no step-by-step guide. As a result of this, I kept a record of what I did and I'm currently writing a book that's working title is'You you don't have to be mad to start a charity, but it does !'. The introduction to the book probably has the most valuable lesson Before you start a charity, go on on at least one, if not two, boards as a member. This will hopefully enable you to learn about governance and compliance, something so many charities and organisations fail in. I believe this to be essential in setting your charity up. Start well from the beginning and you will continue to flourish.

Robyn:

The Rebecca Jane Foundation was launched on August, the 7th 2018, on what would have been Becky's 40th birthday. It helps families who are in financial crisis to pay for their baby's funeral when their baby dies between 20 weeks gestation and one year of age. If you'd like to find out more about the foundation, please go to our website, wwwrjf. org. au.

Robyn:

Lesson 17. Things don't always go the way you think they will. When I started writing this, I had decided on focusing on one lesson, but I soon started to realise that our lives are full of lessons. The lessons I have chosen to share here are only a tiny section of the thousands of lessons I've learnt throughout my life. Becky was almost 10 months old when she died, and I could write an entire book on the lessons I learned from her. That's the thing, though, isn't it? We never stop learning.

Robyn:

I believe the question we need to ask ourselves every time we face a difficult, challenging or even joyful situation is what have I learned from this? I think you'll be surprised by the answer.

Robyn:

So that's just a little bit about me. Well, quite a lot about me, really. I hope you can bear with it and not be too bored along the way, but one of the things that I want to do in each of the sessions is, as a big fan of the Actors Studio, I'm going to take a leaf from their book and ask a series of questions to each of our guests, but, of course, I thought, well, I should answer that too. So here they are:

Robyn:

What is your favourite word, and why? My favourite word is love, because love is what makes the world go round..

Robyn:

What is the thing you are most grateful for in your life? I'm grateful for so many things, but I guess the thing that I'm most grateful for is family. You don't realise how precious family is until somebody's not there.

Robyn:

If you could work in any other role other than what you do now, what would it be? I've taken on many roles during my life and the one thing that I wanted to do when I was very young was to become a policewoman. But you had to be five foot four at the time and I was five foot three and three eights. They told me to wait six months and come back and apply again, which I kind of didn't sit with very well, because I thought I'm not going to grow in that time. Hindsight, of course, was to make sure that I was still interested, but I think I would be a policewoman, although in this day and age I'm not quite sure about that.

Robyn:

What is the sound that you love most? I love to hear a baby's giggle. There is not a more beautiful sound to me than that.

Robyn:

If you could have dinner with one person, living or dead, who would it be? Again, I could answer so many, so many people in this category, but I guess I would love to meet my daughter again and have dinner with her as..

Robyn:

What an adult, what do you think the most important lesson you have learned in your life so far? I think that one of the privileges of being a funeral celebrant and it is a real privilege to hold that role is every day you are reminded how precious life is, and I never take that for granted. You know, it's a bit like when you're driving a car and you go past an accident and suddenly for the next couple of k's you're really careful driving and then old habits kick back in and you're not so careful. I think being reminded basis, working daily the. Working in a funeral industry, I'm reminded every day that your life can . stop

Robyn:

And a heartbeat and directly from the actor's studio. If there is a heaven, what would you want God to say to you when you're met at the pearly gates? I would love for him, her, whoever it is, to "I to me I am proud of you for what you have done, and your daughter is waiting over there for you, and your daughter is waiting over there

Robyn:

for you. So this, wraps up this introductory.

Robyn:

I'm not going to call it my first podcast, because my first podcast is actually talking to someone else in the industry, but this has hopefully given you a little bit of an insight as to who I am, what I want to achieve and how. I hope that ask@ ladyofdeath. com. au to this podcast, you may have learned just one little thing that may take you forward in your life. If you have a question you would like to ask or any other related to learn about, please drop an email to ask at ladyofdeathcomau and we will look at possibly doing a podcast of the questions that you've always wanted to know but never knew or not game enough to ask. Please follow us on Facebook, ask Lady of Death and hopefully we'll talk again soon.

Robyn:

This is Robyn O'Connell, the Lady of death, whose philosophy is 'organising your final farewell is not about wanting to die. It's about wanting to reflect who you really are in your goodbye'. This podcast will be broadcast fortnightly, so every second Monday you'll see it on all the major releases Spotify and Apple and everything else that you can imagine. So I look forward to hearing your questions. I'd love to hear from you and and learn about what you'd like to know about, and hopefully we can go on this journey together and make death a more palatable subject to talk about. Goodbye for now.